James Alexander-Sinclair & Joe Swift | Expert Voice Interview

Best known for their iconic television appearances (including Gardeners' World and RHS coverage), judging, and unmistakable wit, James and Joe have spent decades championing British gardening.

More recently, the long-time friends launched The James and Joe Garden Show - a podcast bringing fresh conversations, humour, and expert insight to gardeners everywhere.

As autumn begins, we caught up with James to talk about garden structure, lasting design, late season colour and what really makes a garden memorable.

You’ve both spent decades visiting, designing, and evaluating some of Britain’s finest gardens. Have your individual ideas of a ‘perfect garden’ changed over the years, and what has influenced your thinking the most?

James: I don’t really think that the idea of a perfect garden exists - it is so individual. I think the idea of what I like has changed enormously over the years. Gardens I loved thirty years ago now look a bit tired and dated. If you stop gardening, a garden it goes downhill very quickly.

Joe: For me wildlife, biodiversity, management and sustainability come into play and is an essential part of ‘the perfect garden’ (if it really exists…discuss). If one can walk into a stunning garden and know it’s also managed sustainably and with wildlife in mind I’m far more likely to engage with it, which wasn’t always the case.

People often assume great gardens are all about plants - is there another fundamental element that both of you agree is key to a great or unique garden design?

James: At the risk of being jeered at by my learned colleague - love is the key to great design. You need people with passion to build, live with and look after a garden.

Joe: Jeer? Never! Completely agree but the great gardens have those great plants put together in wonderful ways. For me a great flowing design will lead one round with surprises and compositions so all the elements (whether their plants, hard landscape, water etc) are culminating in something greater than the sum of its parts. 

Your podcast - The James and Joe Garden Show - feels like a natural partnership. What dynamics and conversations can listeners expect to hear between the two of you that they won’t find anywhere else?

James: We flag ourselves as the least sensible garden podcast in the whole universe so the nurturing of root vegetables or battling of pests is not for us. What are golden rules, Joseph?

Joe: We don’t do dull questions nor dead plants Jimmy! We are old friends who chat away about gardens, plants and people so it’s really a way of capturing it. We often go a little tangential to the theme but that’s how we naturally chat and hopefully keep things fresh, entertaining and not too dry.

What is one common mistake you both see enthusiastic gardeners making time and again?

James: Going to a nursery or garden centre and not reading the label on the plants. If it says “Needs sunshine” then don’t plant it in a shady corner by the bins on the off chance.

Joe: Buying one of everything which is very easy to do. Plant in quantity for impact and you can always throw a few extras in later. 

Structural planting, climbers, and architectural features often provide the framework that holds a garden together throughout the seasons. How important is that permanent structure when you’re designing or assessing a garden, and do you both approach structure in the same way?

James: My principle of planting (learned over many years) is that there are two things that make up a successful scheme: structure (trees, topiary, hedges, woody shrubs, etc) and fluff (annuals, perennials, bulbs and everything else). That is all there is…

Joe: I like quite a bit of structure to hang all ‘the fluff’ - as James puts it - on. But ‘structure’ doesn’t have to be formal box balls, yew hedges and the like. I’ve planted lots of horrnbeam whips in my garden to grow into solid ‘tumps’ (basically clipped mounds) as part of the planting structure. They feel much more natural and work nicely with the rolling hills in the distance. 

September can sometimes feel like the point where gardens (and gardeners!) start to lose momentum - are there particular climbers or late-summer plants that either of you feel never let you down?

James: I disagree: September is one of my favourite months - it marks the end of August (which, especially this year, is often too hot, too dry and too dull). September is not the end of anything but the beginning. I love a ginger at this time of year. And an Aster.

Joe: Agree Jimmy. I’m an ornamental grass lover which add so much in September along with Japanese anemones, asters, sedum, salvias, crocosmia, etc. Go to the garden centre in September, not only in May, and you’ll see a whole new palette out there.

Which current gardening or design trend do you both secretly wish would disappear?

James: Hot tubs - also known as teeming soups of bacteria, dead insects and pedestrian sexual fantasies.

Joe: Err…wasn’t expecting that James! Plastic grass is awful stuff. Never rots and smells awful. Hated it when I played football on it as a kid and grazed my knees and think it should be banned in gardens- so not sitting on that fence!

From changing climates to new planting styles and smart technologies, what excites you both most about the future of British gardening?

James: Mostly the idea of making more shade - and the great range of plants that will allow us to grow. I only wish we had started thinking about shade twety years ago.

Joe: Agree. We need to plant more trees, create more shade and use resilient plants that can cope with hot dry summers and wet winters. We (at www.modular.london) have been building complicated gardens with no cement at all… it can be done!

Gardens have become so much more than places to grow plants - they’re increasingly extensions of our homes. How has the way we use and design our outdoor spaces changed over the course of your respective careers?

James: Forgive me for going a bit grumpy old sod but, in some people’s hand the extension of the home thing has gone too far. Plants have been edged out in favour of yards of sterile porcelain paving, plastic grass, outdoor kitchens and sleeper beds housing populations of horrible Photinia Red robin.

Joe: Ooh, he is a bit grumpy today. I’ve been designing gardens to be lived in and used (not just gardened in) for the last 40 years but yes, some can get a bit product heavy. Many people are working from home more too, so any outside space is particularly valuable to them. Just don’t forget the plants as that’s what makes it a garden and importantly connects us with nature, rather than being just an outdoor living space.

Finally, after a joint lifetime spent exploring, filming, and creating remarkable gardens, what still gives you both the greatest joy when you step through a garden gate?

James: It is always an exciting moment when you get to see a client’s garden for the first time. It is not really about what is there now but seeing the promise and the possibilities. My heart still beats faster as I open the gate to a new garden.

Joe: Jame’s heart beats especially faster if he’s opening the gate for moi! Entering a garden for the first time is an immersion in somewhere that is always personal, unique, alive but always changing. That moment will never be repeated…ever! When it comes together, the light is fab, the plants are doing their thing- looking and smelling great- and there’s a soundtrack of birdsong to lead one round it can be the most magical moment. I’m very lucky to have had many of them over the years….